A lot of the reality based community has taken the opinion that the (D)s were bludgeoned into gutting FISA for fear of backlash from the 25%ers. I don't think that's true. Most of the (D)s who voted for this thing did so because they believe it is good policy.

Ideologically perverted (D)s are a whole different kettle of fish entirely from (D)s that are merely spineless.

"Ideologically perverted" describes the whole of the Democratic contingent in the Congress.

Including Dennis Kucinich.

The Congress has the power to stop the President. They are on equal footing, power-wise, under the Constitution. If they do not stop the President, it is because of only one reason: they agree with him.

Don't delude yourself. They are all perverted. They pretend to stand for one thing; they actually stand for another.

I say the cycle of Hell portrayed in the graphic is a bit too generous, a bit too lenient on the utterly culpable complicity of the Democrats.

The people who fall for the GOP's scary terrorism rhetoric are a lot more numerous than the 25%ers. A lot of them are swing voters. That's not to say that caving in to Bush on this vote was a good way to deal with the situation, just a recognition that the problem isn't imaginary.

Also, I'm a little confused on what the earlier iterations of this cycle are supposed to be, given that only in the last election did Democrats actually get (nominal) control of Congress. Their majority does depend on some "ideologically perverted" D's, so it doesn't seem particularly foolish to me to want to decrease the number of such D's (without increasing the number of R's, who are uniformly even worse) and increase the number of other D's (who are apparently the majority of D's).

But apparently I'm just deluded because I'm not calling for Naderism or assassinations or something.

I beg to differ regarding Kucinich. If he suddenly started polling at even just 20 per cent, the "Relevant Three" would FREAK OUT and start talking about how much the want to hug Iranians and impeach Bush and Cheney. Keep in mind, the current polls are of likely primary voters.

So if President Hillary ever authorizes airstrikes against a country full of brown-skinned people because they make Pat Robertson nervous, maybe democratic voters who insist on worshiping at the altar of reasonableness should instead look at themselves in a mirror and say,

"man, we're a bunch of dumb motherfuckers."

KCinDC, the Democrats have both followed and condoned a capitulationist strategy for decades, whether in minority or majority and even when in control of the presidency. It's not just one election cycle. They bow to slightly saner vested interests, but bow they do and they're not about to stop. Why should they? They face no greater threat than having to spend some time in the private sector, academia or NGOs. In order to elect better Democrats, liberals and progressives would have to choke off the influence of the powerful corporatist Dems who control huge amounts of the resources candidates need in order to get elected. They'd also have to contend with the wingnut elite and wingnut movement voters who despise liberalism even more than they want to win elections.

Past efforts are forcing parties to change have always depended on third party challenges and the willingness of activisits to make sure the bad machine candidate loses, even if that means sacrificing election cycles. The wingnut elite and the reactionary vested interests supporting them did that for years. There were fairly liberal Republicans, once upon a time. Not any more.

What you dismiss as "Naderism" is but one small, needed part of an overall effort to force the conduct of the state in a more liberal direction. The "assassinations" remark is just plain silly.

For the last seven years, rank and file Democrats have been on the receiving end of a brutal lesson that is a direct consequence of their party leaders' capitulationist and careerist focus. The graphic Jonathan posted nicely illustrates the bankruptcy of casting votes that ensure they can continue to pursue that.

Rahm Emanuel, whose bro is an Israeli military man? Impeach Emanuel from any important position in the Democratic Party. And/or bring on Nader.

Ken Hoop, what's your problem with Rahm Emanuel? Didn't you see from my post that he and the Democrats are united in fixing this flawed law? The Democrats need our support now, more than ever!

So we just need a few more terms of rule by the Bushites to wake up the Democrats? I'm sorry, but I don't believe we'll have an America after that. I'm going to continue to choose the lesser of two evils and do what I can to improve it rather than embrace the strategy of "It has to get worse before it gets better."

Emmanuel was also instrumental in recruiting conservocrats to run for congress in 2006, like Harold Ford-- and like the "blue dog" dems who abandoned the democrats who voted against the FISA bill to vote with the GOP. The man is a butt-head, now, more than ever.

IF THE TAXPAYER, has a final controling vote on the BUDGET, then the TAXPAYER trumps the Lobbiest. If Congress is forced to SELL a BUDGET to the TAXPAYER, then the corporate adgenda becomes second place to the TAXPAYER'S adgenda. Apparently NO-ONE on Planet Earth is able to out finance THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER, (the biggest pile of money in the world), corporations can only compete by cheating and CORRUPTION. THE TAXPAYER'S strength is in his WEALTH, but he MUST be able to direct that strength toward the BENEFIT of the NATION AND HIMSELF. Congress is not so inclined and one need only "read the handwriting on the wall" as WE speed toward it, to see how OUR path will end.

KCinDC, the Democratic rank and file has settled for wingnut policy outcome already, as the last couple of decades have demonstrated. The capitulationist strategy -- which you call the "lesser evil" -- guarantees more of that. There's no such thing as waking up people who are perfectly content to accept it as along as it comes from a Democratic majority. They're not sleeping. They're willfully and belligerently stupid.

The "genius" of the Reagan Revolution was that the Republicans quit accommodating the New Deal coalition and now gleefully enact policies that deliberately undermine Democratic constituencies (e.g., disenfranchise African-Americans, end labor unions' ability to organize). The Dems now are afraid/unwilling to take serious action to weaken Wall Street, evangelical Christians, defense contractors, etc.

57 Dems voted for this stupid, stupid shit. What I've yet to see is a list of these people. The thing that pisses me off about third party now idiots is that they can't see that the way to get rid of these people is from inside the party. Then enact electoral reform and you can actually have a third (or fourth or fifth) party. The Dems, even the Blue dogs, are not space aliens. Get a grip. That's not to say none of them are vile, but many are not. How many here have stood for an elected position? How many have worked to get a Dem candidate nominated that doesn't suck?

And if they are all vile, please describe (in detail) the mechanism that makes them so.

So here's my question: if the Democrats enable the same horrible policies of the same worst president ever as the Republicans, what is the difference again between the Democrats and the Republicans? My memory is short and I just can't recall it.

I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here:
'I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.'
'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.'
'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!'

- Bill Hicks, Rant in E-Minor, 1997

Nancy Pelosi is a Democrat, call her @1-202-225-0100 and discuss IMPEACHMENT. 500 to 1000 call everyday, now it's YOUR TURN. Put YOUR HAND to the cause.

Mike Meyer, what are the grounds for impeachment? I thought that the best ground for impeachment was the grossly unconstitutional wiretapping program. But Pelosi is hardly going to impeach half of Congress.

By the way, I realized that the Rahm Emmanuel quote I had earlier was unclear. When he said

"We had to do it. We did what we needed to do. The Democrats are united in fixing this flawed law."

the "flawed law" he's describing is the one that the Democrats just passed, not the old version. I shit you not.

Autumn Harvest: Because this Administration has left a trail of shit 1000 miles wide and 5000 miles long, the possible choices for charges are endless. My personal favorite is OUTING A CIA AGENT IN TIME OF WAR IS TREASON AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Of course, after their vacation Congress may well make TREASON all legallike so that we may more easily roll over and "suck it up" although "some folks" are more than willing to bend over and save OUR Congress that extra effort.

Mike mEYEr, I would loVE To see Bush/Cheney imPEACHed. HowEVEr, I do not think tHAT randomly caPITalizing words is the best wAy to go abOUT it.

Autumn Harvest: Calling Nancy Pelosi and discussing IMPEACHMENT IS the best way to go about it. (1-202-225-0100)

I'm sorry, but I have to say this:

You people are fucking stupid. From an outside observer, all this crap about "demos-kratos" and "re-publis" (check out what that means, and judge for yourselfs if it has any bearing to reality) is not only pointless, but astonishing fro ma group of people who, supposedly, finally "get it"...

The Lanclet reported back in 2006 that there were about 650.000 dead iraquis as direct and indirect consequences of the US invasion. Extrapolating on that data, by now the mark has passed 900.000 and it will reach 1.000.000 by the end of the year.

In all sterile-mathematical likelihood, right at this moment in time, when you are debating wether "democrats" are worth a piss in the nose or not, Bush and Cheney and whoever else you want to blame in the republican party KILLED LESS IRAQUIS THAN CLINTON, THE FUCKING DEMOCRAT!

Remember the "UN" sanctions? 1.000.000 iraquis STARVED to death. Half of them children. That fascist whore, Tatcher said onon live mike "it was worth it". How the fuck can the democrats be a better option than the republicans? Oh and, on the subject of ratings, Clinton had a ~73% approval rating when he was impeached for a blowjob. Not for killing in a hideous way 1.000.000 people (plus the ones in Somalia, in Yugoslavia and other "humaniarian interventions"). Does that mean that there are 73% guilty nazi filth americans that support a president who starves to death hundreds of thousands of children?

What a "just" and "moral" punishment Clinton got... BTW, how much does Clinton have in the bank right now? Maybe Hitler should've ass-raped some Jews... Then he would've been "impeached" and set off to live with his billion marks in a tropical island and make appearances and anti-AIDS campaigns and speak heartly, in his own unique style (and we know he had some awesome oratory skills) for the environement...

You people are fucking stupid. For people outside watching this is sickening...
What the fuck is "impeachement" to the retarded muppet on top and, maybe, for that nazi filth Cheney for destroying an entire country and killing almost 1 million people?

This is a joke and one to be expected. Never in your history, nor you or the other western nations, have payed reparations for the horrors you've caused all around the world.

"OK, we'll stop it, but we get to keep the loot".
"We'll stop slaughtering and kidnaping you from Africa, we'll stop slaving you and selling your children into slavery, but we get to keep ALL the wealth we made on your backs and blood".
What the fuck did the blacks got after the "abolition"? The right NOT to be slaved?

At individual level, in your oh-so civilized society, if some nazi greedy freak rapes a women and her child and chops off their heads and takes all their possessions, what does "justice" deliver? He walks scott free with the loot, on the voluntary promise that he won't rape, murder and loot? No. Fucking no. Head chopping rapists get dragged into a basement, strapped to a chair and fried. But that's just another of your hypocrisies... Not yours personally, the entire western civilization. You are so moral and just at individual level, but on a national level you are full of shit.

The ones responsible for the Iraq war should be dragged and thrown into a concrete pit and have white phosphorous poured on them, like what happened to the people of Falluja. Have their families stripped of all the profits they made my slaughtering countless and let them push oil barrels in the docks for a living.

Of course that will never happen. The only time fascist white filth are punished is when they reach into the pocket of other white people, like when Nazi Germany did. Nevermind then the British Empire killed all around the world far more people than the nazis... Nazis killed jews, british, french.. If the nazis would've done to the people of central africa or the people of south asia the thinks they've done in Europe, nobody would've gave a fuck. How many times do you read what nazis did in their colonies in Africa? They did things as worse or even worse than what they've done to the jews... But since central-africans are black and poor and non-christian/judaic nobody gives a fuck. Like when a jew, Henry Kissinger, orchestrated the death of almost 3 million vietnamese (that's half a jewish holocaust) and got a fucking Nobel Peace Prize for it... That's the most obscene form of hypocrisy in the entire western civilization history. Kissinger and his nazi greedy family are filthy rich now. Vietnam s still a country infested by agent orange (genocide by chemical WMD) where hundreds of babies are born each year with horrible congenital deformities caused BY the "exfoliating agent" Kissinger had ordered dumped on their country. Were there any reparations to Vietnam? Fuck no. You never pay up your victims.

What the fuck is calling Pleosi for "impeachment" is going to do? Is Pleosi going to haul Bush and the rest of the gang to Hague, trial them and execute them? Nope. All of them, all the ones responsible for this, will be , at best, "shamed" by an impeachment, and they'll take all the billions they made and live a fascist filthy rich life.

I'm sorry, but I have to say this:

You people are fucking stupid. From an outside observer, all this crap about "demos-kratos" and "re-publis" (check out what that means, and judge for yourselfs if it has any bearing to reality) is not only pointless, but astonishing fro ma group of people who, supposedly, finally "get it"...

The Lanclet reported back in 2006 that there were about 650.000 dead iraquis as direct and indirect consequences of the US invasion. Extrapolating on that data, by now the mark has passed 900.000 and it will reach 1.000.000 by the end of the year.

In all sterile-mathematical likelihood, right at this moment in time, when you are debating wether "democrats" are worth a piss in the nose or not, Bush and Cheney and whoever else you want to blame in the republican party KILLED LESS IRAQUIS THAN CLINTON, THE FUCKING DEMOCRAT!

Remember the "UN" sanctions? 1.000.000 iraquis STARVED to death. Half of them children. That fascist whore, Tatcher said onon live mike "it was worth it". How the fuck can the democrats be a better option than the republicans? Oh and, on the subject of ratings, Clinton had a ~73% approval rating when he was impeached for a blowjob. Not for killing in a hideous way 1.000.000 people (plus the ones in Somalia, in Yugoslavia and other "humaniarian interventions"). Does that mean that there are 73% guilty nazi filth americans that support a president who starves to death hundreds of thousands of children?

What a "just" and "moral" punishment Clinton got... BTW, how much does Clinton have in the bank right now? Maybe Hitler should've ass-raped some Jews... Then he would've been "impeached" and set off to live with his billion marks in a tropical island and make appearances and anti-AIDS campaigns and speak heartly, in his own unique style (and we know he had some awesome oratory skills) for the environement...

You people are fucking stupid. For people outside watching this is sickening...
What the fuck is "impeachement" to the retarded muppet on top and, maybe, for that nazi filth Cheney for destroying an entire country and killing almost 1 million people?

This is a joke and one to be expected. Never in your history, nor you or the other western nations, have payed reparations for the horrors you've caused all around the world.

"OK, we'll stop it, but we get to keep the loot".
"We'll stop slaughtering and kidnaping you from Africa, we'll stop slaving you and selling your children into slavery, but we get to keep ALL the wealth we made on your backs and blood".
What the fuck did the blacks got after the "abolition"? The right NOT to be slaved?

At individual level, in your oh-so civilized society, if some nazi greedy freak rapes a women and her child and chops off their heads and takes all their possessions, what does "justice" deliver? He walks scott free with the loot, on the voluntary promise that he won't rape, murder and loot? No. Fucking no. Head chopping rapists get dragged into a basement, strapped to a chair and fried. But that's just another of your hypocrisies... Not yours personally, the entire western civilization. You are so moral and just at individual level, but on a national level you are full of shit.

The ones responsible for the Iraq war should be dragged and thrown into a concrete pit and have white phosphorous poured on them, like what happened to the people of Falluja. Have their families stripped of all the profits they made my slaughtering countless and let them push oil barrels in the docks for a living.

Of course that will never happen. The only time fascist white filth are punished is when they reach into the pocket of other white people, like when Nazi Germany did. Nevermind then the British Empire killed all around the world far more people than the nazis... Nazis killed jews, british, french.. If the nazis would've done to the people of central africa or the people of south asia the thinks they've done in Europe, nobody would've gave a fuck. How many times do you read what nazis did in their colonies in Africa? They did things as worse or even worse than what they've done to the jews... But since central-africans are black and poor and non-christian/judaic nobody gives a fuck. Like when a jew, Henry Kissinger, orchestrated the death of almost 3 million vietnamese (that's half a jewish holocaust) and got a fucking Nobel Peace Prize for it... That's the most obscene form of hypocrisy in the entire western civilization history. Kissinger and his nazi greedy family are filthy rich now. Vietnam s still a country infested by agent orange (genocide by chemical WMD) where hundreds of babies are born each year with horrible congenital deformities caused BY the "exfoliating agent" Kissinger had ordered dumped on their country. Were there any reparations to Vietnam? Fuck no. You never pay up your victims.

What the fuck is calling Pleosi for "impeachment" is going to do? Is Pleosi going to haul Bush and the rest of the gang to Hague, trial them and execute them? Nope. All of them, all the ones responsible for this, will be , at best, "shamed" by an impeachment, and they'll take all the billions they made and live a fascist filthy rich life.

Uncle Bob: IMPEACHMENT will get them out of office and remove their power. It's a "one step at a time" world.