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January 15, 2006

I Enjoy Canada

Over at Matthew Yglesias' section of TPM Cafe, he has a post about Iran and nuclear weapons.

I don't have an opinion about the post itself, but it did prompt perhaps the greatest comment in commenting history:

Speaking as a Canadian who is fond of judicious language, I feel that this situation deserves careful and measured thought. So let me just open with:

Is your entire f*cking country on crack??? Are all you Americans out of your cotton picking minds??? Are you completely freaking delusional? Homicidal? Psychotic? Have you lost any shred of a moral compass? WHAT IN THE NAME OF JESUS H. CHRIST ON A CRUTCH IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

[more below]

Let me offer up one small datum which may completely change the equation for you. According to the CIA, Iran is at least five years away from a nuclear weapon.

Five years. Assuming that the CIA has any credibility whatsoever left, its five years. Five years, is time for diplomacy to accomplish a hell of a lot.

In the meantime, I would also point out that the Atomic Energy Commission, that various other international bodies, that inspections have essentially found no sign that Iran is even working on a nuclear weapon.

The only actual evidence that Iran has anything close to nuclear weapons technology is blueprints *that the CIA gave to them!*

Have you all forgotten that the evidence on Iraq was spectacularly wrong? Have you all ignored the fact that it was fabricated? Why then are we going down the exact same road of stage managed, fabricated pseudo-evidence and wild-ass hysteria? What is wrong with you people?

Can't you see that this entire crisis has been manufactured, and has been years in the manufacturing.

Stop and think back five years. What did we have five years ago? A moderate reformist Iranian government making overtures to the United States, rebuilding its relationship with Europe, liberalizing its society, and modernizing its economy.

9/11 comes along, the Iranians are overflowing with sympathy. Mass candlelit vigils are held in Tehran. Iran offers aid and cooperation. Iran hates the Taliban who have executed Iranian diplomats and massacred Afghan Shiites. Iran hates Saddam Hussein. Iran hates Al Quaeda which is a Sunni Fundamentalist organization which declares Shiites infidels and subhuman. Iran shares its intelligence with America, it even arrests Taliban hands them over. So we've got the Iranian spring right, things are finally going to sort out?

And what happens? The Bush administration rebuffs every Iranian overture and does its best to instigate a cold war. Afghanistan is invaded, and suddenly, the Iranians are looking at American troops and allies on their eastern border. Then Iraq is invaded, and its American troops and allies on their western border. Then bases and treaties in Uzbekistan and whoops, there's more American troops and allies on the northern border. The Persian Gulf is filled with American warships and carrier fleets.

Wow, the Iranians are surrounded. And the tough talk is constant. Iran is part of the 'Axis of Evil', the Americans tell each other 'Bagdad, hmmph, real men go to Tehran.' Essentially, America has been threatening military action against Iran for the last five years, and has surrounded the country on every side with troops, bases and allies.

American aircraft invade Iranian airspace regularly. American special forces undertake operations inside Iran. Americans regularly accuse Iranians of interference in Iraq. Dick Cheney pontificates about Israel bombing Iran *after he has just handed over to Israel the long range bombers and bunker busting bombs* required to do the job.

Meanwhile, the United States undertakes economic warfare against Iran, interfering with its business dealings with third party countries, trying to scuttle a pipeline deal with India, and it goes on and on. The hysteria about the Iranians nuclear program is just more of the same.

Now how in God's Bloody Name do you think the Iranians are going to respond to that. Should they concede the nuclear program, abandon their pipeline project? If so, its not going to do them any good. America will just seek more concessions. Each surrender will be met by new demands. This isn't hard to figure out. It's exactly what Bush did with Iraq.

Perhaps overtures, good will gestures, trying to act like a peaceful nation. Did all those things, doesn't matter. The Bush administration is still on a collision course.

So, the Mullahs are concerned that they're faced with a homicidal crazy state, the Iranian people are scared. When people are scared and faced with an aggressive warmongering power which keeps threatening to attack them, continually trespasses on its borders and is undertaking economic warfare... who the hell are they going to elect? Ahminajad may be a crazy bastard, but you assholes, you utter assholes did every thing you could to elect him short of donating 50,000 Diebold machines and mailing his party the trapdoor codes.

So, having pursued a psychotically aggressive course, you've backed Iran into a corner, and engineered a regime which refuses to back further.

And *you* are the victims in all this? *You* are the ones under threat? It's *self defense*????

And of course, you goofily believe that you can just bomb or nuke Iran with impunity?

Holy Microeconomic Theory Bamant! Iran's nuclear facilities are distributed across the country and in hardened sites near population centres. So any strike that cripples a significant portion of Iran's nuclear capacity will inevitably be so large and kill so many people that its going to be tantamount to inviting full scale war.

Think about that. Iran is 70 million people, an area five times the size of Iraq, not disembowelled by 12 years of sanctions and air raids. On the other side of the coin, America's ground army is busted and tied down in Iraq. There's no troops to throw at a major Iranian military force, so you have to hope that bombing will do the trick. The occupation forces in Iraq are in occupation and not territorial defense mode. And Iraq is 65% Shiites who are probably not going to be happy that you're blowing up their brother Shiites. Meanwhile, the straight of Hormuz is so narrow that sinking one supertanker will block it indefinitely, and Iran borders the straight on three sides. Block Hormuz and any naval groups inside the Persian Gulf are trapped there. Any naval groups outside the Persian Gulf are trapped outside. Forget about any oil coming out of the Persian Gulf from Iraq, Kuwait, Quatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia or the UAE. Think about what that does to the price of oil, and to the world economy. Think about what that does to dependent countries like Japan, India, China and Europe.

In short its so appallingly stupid and colossally risky, that I can see why your idiots in charge might consider using nuclear weapons. But throw a few nukes around and see how the rest of the world reacts? Every dirtwad country is going to be mortgaging the Presidential palace to get its own nuclear deterrent from Pakistan or North Korea. How do you feel about the Indonesian Bomb, the Malaysian Bomb, the Thai Bomb, the Myanmar Bomb, the Algerian Bomb, the Saudi Bomb, the Egyptian Bomb, the Brazilian Bomb, the Argentine Bomb, the Venezualan Bomb, the Cuban Bomb, the Japanese Bomb, the Canadian frigging Bomb. You are no longer trustworthy. North Korea, always borderline psychotic is going to be mondo difficult to deal with. You've just guaranteed yourself a full fledged nuclear arms race, balls to the wall with both Russia and China, and quite possibly Europe.

And of course there's no guarantee that the rest of the world will allow this. Do you want an armed standoff with the Russians. Suppose they 'loan' their finest interceptor jets, pilots and radar systems to the Iranians... Do you want to meet *that* on a bombing raid? And if you do meet *that* what are you going to do when half your planes are blasted out of the skies conducting an illegal raid on civilian populations in a foreign country? Cry? Send a harsh note? Launch a first strike? What happens if the Chinese decide to hold Taiwan and South Korea hostage? What do you do? Back off Iran or sell out East Asia? Or Launch a first strike? Hell, in that kind of standoff, someone sneezes and its not going to matter who launched a first strike.

Or would you like an economic standoff, say with Europe, or with Japan and China. Suppose that the Europeans or Chinese decide "screw the worldwide depression, you assholes are just too dangerous to have around." Trillions of dollars get dumped on the market, loans get called in, the bottom drops out of your dollar, its thousand per cent inflation and no manufacturing base and your own trade embargoes. So much for America.

I mean, its morally wrong, its stupid on every level. And yet here you are discussing why maybe you should get out in front of the Republicans on this, or planning your surrender to Bush. Why are you even discussing this?

What is wrong with America?

Posted at January 15, 2006 10:42 PM | TrackBack

Has nothing to do with America. has everything to do with the unreality of Team Cheney. Until the world gets their Murrow interview with Cheney, the fiat will continue.

No one is going to permit an Iranian attack, this is just the rope the administration has been allowed to hang itself.

Posted by: patience at January 16, 2006 12:04 AM

The thread should have ended right at the end of that. It was the perfect response to the giggly and precious litte post.

Posted by: J. Alva Scruggs at January 16, 2006 03:03 AM

oh my lawd!

great find Jon!

Posted by: almostinfamous at January 16, 2006 04:37 PM

Very impressive, but the commenter seems to have forgotten Poland ;-)

Posted by: radish at January 16, 2006 05:17 PM

Sounds like the conversations at most parties I go to in Melbourne.

I guess this post is somehow more surprising to Americans than to everyone else...

Posted by: floopmeister at January 16, 2006 08:48 PM

No, not surprising anymore. Many of the rest of you Non-Americans seem to forget - half this country is trapped in hell by the terminally stupid morons this poster rails against. WE didn't elect Team Chimpy - WE did everything we could to stop this fascist regime from appearing. Hell - we actually WON in 2000! But did you folks DO anything to help us out, when the idiots took over? How 'bout England? Hell, you people lent BushCo your chief monkey, and made an ass of him - and us. France? Germany? Northern Europe? Can I get a "WTF" from China? How 'bout you Aussies? Canada?! ANYONE?!!!!!!

Did ANYONE put sanctions against the U.S. for such a heinously stolen election? Anything levied for an illegal war? How 'bout diplomatic punishments for decreasing the stabilization of the Middle East? Any political rebuke for ANY of it? Any economic repercussions? ANYTHING, from ANYONE as consequences for the actions of the American Idiots?!!!!

NOTHING??!!! FROM NO ONE???!!!!!

And NOW... AFTER all of the SHITHELL that the 50% of worthwhile Americans still have to go through, you berate us, belittle us, degrade us, and write us off, because our media has been hi-jacked by the Big Dick Mind and Money Control Brigade and will only tell sensational lies, approved by the office of Rovian Doublespeak?!!!!

WHEN WE'RE SO FUCKING TIRED WE'RE WILLING TO TRY A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G -– to either kill us all and get it over, or just get things changed from what they have been, now you shout at us, "What the hell's your problem, retard?!"


And then you wonder where the apathy comes from?

Let me kick you in the balls, every day, for six years, so hard you puke every time, because you really stand for honesty, true social and economic justice, and most things that are sane and right, and then let me ask you -
What the hell is your damn problem that you can't do anything to stop me from kicking you in the balls?
Is it your inability to stand up anymore, or the fact that you no longer have any feeling in your crotch and therefore can't care anymore?

You want to change the world? HELP US.
For the love of every god you can think of, help us get rid of these wingnuts once and for all.
Am I advocating genocide? If eliminating the terminally stupid from any form of power in America is genocide, then I guess so.

But I can't seem to find my ethical compass anymore - and frankly, I can't give a shit what you think anymore, for some reason you can't begin to fathom.
Now pardon me while I continue leaning over and retching, due to my daily cultural crotch-kick.

--Far Down The Road Into Hell, In A Gilded Bucket, With A Lock-down Top, Begging For Rescue

Posted by: Silversmith at January 16, 2006 11:48 PM

It should also be pointed out that the Canadians appear to be on the verge of voting Bush Jr. into the Prime Minister's office. You think they'd have learned something about that as well...

Posted by: Geoduck at January 17, 2006 12:00 AM



Kiss our asses!


Johnny Liberty

Posted by: Johnny Liberty at January 17, 2006 12:00 AM

The point is, people, this is how the rest of the world sees us. Right, wrong, or both, we need to be aware of it.

Another thing to be aware of: anger is good -- if you use it. Shouting at the world doesn't accomplish anything unless you're putting your time, your money, and your actions where your mouth is. (This observation is directed not only at our Canadian friend, but also at the angry American who responded with so much cynicism. I'm angry too, but I haven't given up working and hoping for a better future. Just because it isn't easy or apparent doesn't mean it's impossible.)

Note to Johnny Liberty: if your blind "patriotism" is meant as a serious point, try spelling your words correctly. I'm sure you think that "Z" adds some kind of coolness factor to your message, but the rest of us think you're a dumb kid parroting your hardcore conservative daddy.

Posted by: Amazonbombshell at January 17, 2006 01:18 AM

As another Canadian, I agree entirely with my countrymen. It's sadly become my considered opinion that just about 1/2 the population of the United States is certifiable in the technical sense. That is to say, for a near majority of the population, their grip on reality is to tenuous, their perceptions and cognition so warped, that they are demonstrably a danger to themselves and others, and ought be confined during Her Majesty's pleasure (i.e. committed for an indefinite period). Parenthetically, your state is now confining sane people under His Majesty's pleasure.

I do feel some sympathy for one the correspondents, who speaks for some alternate grouping within the American population. But not much. My experience has been that the vast majority of even the "liberals" identify with and will ultimately support the predatory American State.

You're jointly and severally liable, as well for the heinous crimes recently committed and ongoing in Iraq and Afganistan, as for those possibly worse crimes about to be committed. What will you, any of you, have to say when the Chinese adopt a doctrine of premptive war? Eh?

Exasperated in Vancouver

Posted by: Pete Banuck at January 17, 2006 02:32 AM

To Silversmith:

Have 50% of Americans actually written to their Senators or Congressmen to demand that Bush be impeached?

You are a democratic sovereign nation, so you are expected to choose your own course.

I'm doing my bit. I voted against Tony and I've signed petitions to demand his impeachment.

Posted by: Clive at January 17, 2006 04:29 AM

Check out Operation Ajax 1953 - it's where this all started.

Posted by: Incredulous (U.K.) at January 17, 2006 08:36 AM

I think the Canadian TPM commenter gave an excellent list of reasons why this "threat of nuclear war against Iran" should not really be taken seriously. (At least I hope so.)

Posted by: jonj at January 17, 2006 08:38 AM

Clive - Yes, I have demanded impeachment, on more than one occasion. You usually get back a "nifty" little letter that says something to the effect of, "Well, golly gee, voter. I'm sure glad you wrote. Maybe someday, when hell becomes a Fridgidaire dealership, I'll give enough of a crap to REALLY read what you have to say. Now run along, and don't bother the nice Senator. I have bribes to take." I'm glad you've done what you can. But those of us who are worthwhile have not been allowed to choose our own course. We're strapped to the back of the idiot brigade, who currently has control of this body we call the United States.

Amazon Bombshell - I think many of us have done what we can, and continue to do what we can to try to stop the flood of stupidity. However, as the founding fathers stated, "There comes a time... when it is necessary... to break the bonds..."
I believe we are at that point, when it is time to consider, legitimately, how this could be accomplished. It looks like our Canadian friends are willing to help. Who else is willing to lend a hand?

Maybe Clive is.

In some ways, I'm partially serious. Some of these fascists will never learn until they get what they say they want - at which point, of course, they won't be able to handle it. So I say, let's pound the accelerator through the floor! They want world domination? OK, Fine! Here's THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD, right now! ...
Of course, much of the rest of the world would kill them instantly. Which in some ways, I'm OK with.

It's like a child who refuses to acknowledge "the line" they shouldn't cross, until they're punished, after they've crossed it. But the wingers are not as intelligent as kids, and time outs and naughty spots are not going to change their attitudes one bit.

I've referred to the problem of retraining the terminally stupid for years as "education with a stick". It's as though the wingnuts won't learn until someone smacks them upside the head with a tree branch. Then, suddenly, they seem to gain IQ points.
I'd love to say, "Let's educate them, ALL THE WAY." But I realize that wouldn't do much good. They'd just multiply again, like the cockroaches they are.

So we're left with, "Now What?"

And in most ways, I think that a Declaration of Separation would be a good thing. Like Aesop's "Belling the Cat" though, how the hell can we implement it? If you have ideas, I'm all for it.

Posted by: Silversmith at January 17, 2006 08:51 AM

Wow! Great stuff here! Like you, Silversmith, I have written my congressfolk and gotten the same old bullshit form letters back. I am quite convinced that we now have the best government that corporate money can buy! These cocksuckers in D.C. have two things on their mind: how to keep their corporate sponsors happy and how to keep their job! Note that these two items are really two sides of the same coin, pun intended.

I have served as a minister in a liberal mainline church for the last 20 years and just got out of the USAF after 10 years as a chaplain. Never in my life did I ever think I would see the day when our government would be so dam corrupt and openly at that! Watergate, which I remeber so well, can't hold a candle to the arrogance and evil this BushCo regime is doing to us and the world! It is truly insane.

Our media is part of the corporate/political fuckfest. So any ability to discuss and argue ideas have to happen on blogs like these. If I could afford to move out of this country, I would do it in a heartbeat! This once proud country is in dire straights, to say the least. I want to believe in some kind of hope that things can get turned around, but with all the corporate and political corruption going on that seems to be the norm for our nation I cannot realistically see a future worth hoping for!

Thanks for the great and wity spewing on this site. What is being said here is Truth! But at least we can still laugh while fighting back the tears!

Posted by: Fried Friar at January 17, 2006 10:39 AM

I agree with everything my Fellow Canadian Has said.Talking on blogs and writing Senators Aren't Working.I think Americans Need to Take to the Streets and Let the GOvernment and The World KNOW that you've had Enough.Look at what happened when the Ukraine HAd thier Orange revolt.I didn't see this in the USA when you Resigned to the fact that the SCOTUS put Bush in office That was when you Americans Should've SHUT DOWN the Country.You Allowed the SCOTUS to Decide your President and you Did the Same in 2004.I like many others in the World have Watched the US change.Back in the '60s n'70s you had the BALLS now after years of the GOOD LIFE where you've Raised your Children EXPECT everything to be GIVEN to them you don't See the desent on College Campus anymore.The Dems have to use the same Weapon of the REpukes "BOYCOTT" the MSM and thier Sponsors.As far as Bush Lite HArper I'll be voting LIBERAL.Fucking Harper is Already thanking the PEOPLE for thier prayers.Sure the Conservatives may get Elected but hopefully it will be a MINORITY and when he SCREWS up we'll get another Election in a year. the Conservative Party here in Canada isn't as Far Right as Repukes.The Conservatives got Destroyed after MULOONEy they were left with TWO Seats and have been Clawing thier way back ever since.If they do Gain Power again they will wacth thier Steps or they will be Destroyed Again.

Posted by: Suzanne at January 17, 2006 12:30 PM

Folks, you don't reason with narcissistic yuppy welfare queens and corporate rent boys. You threaten to cost them their jobs and their post-official sinecure system. Changing voter registration en masse is the simplest, easiest most risk free start and it's completely legal. Send your local rent boys and welfare queens a xerox copy of the canceled check you made to the third party of your choice, or the activist group that's targeted them for defeat.

I don't think most Democrats are at all serious about derailing the wingnut movement, or putting an end to neoliberal interventionism, or putting an end to the full spectrum security state. Or, for that matter, fixing the health care system, schools and abominable economic circumstances of the working class. Their solution to these problems every time is elect more Democrats.

Posted by: J. Alva Scruggs at January 17, 2006 12:35 PM

Exasperated in smug if you want to, but this whole mess hasn't played out yet...don't think your great country...or any on this planet are in the clear. This is a world crisis...if this U.S. government was still really listening to the people, things would be different right now. I think Silversmith has a very good point with regards to the rest of the world. Where the fuck are they?

Posted by: Bob Wray at January 17, 2006 01:36 PM

Bob Wray,

Suppose some were inclined to stand up to the US. Why should they when there's a near certainty the next administration is going to follow the same policies? Moreover, what's to keep a coalition going when one or two bribed defectors can make the effort a shambles?

I think people are missing the point of the Judicious Canadian's rant. The nominal opposition was talking about measures might or might not be appropriate at a time where the best thing to do is leave a country alone. In other words, the degree of collusion in bad, stupid, criminal policy is what's up for debate. Not how best to oppose it.

Posted by: J. Alva Scruggs at January 17, 2006 01:49 PM

Where the hell is the rest of the world? Well, right here where we've always been, of course. May I remind you that we were part of the biggest protests in world history before the invasion of Iraq?

Fat lot of good it did.

Whilst I sympathise with you, Silversmith, just what the hell are we supposed to do about Bush? I'm sorry, but when do we get to vote in the election of "The Leader of the Free World"?

You want help to get rid of the wingnuts - as if the wingnuts have somehow wandered in from outside the US over the last 50 years or so. They are, sadly, obviously as much a part of the US cultural fabric as liberalism. How the hell can we do anything about it?

The Guardian instigated a policy of asking concerned brits to write letters to voters in marginal counties, politely explaining why voting for Bush might be a bad idea.

Wanna guess how that proposal was received?

Posted by: floopmeister at January 17, 2006 04:56 PM

The real problem is two-fold. First, the corporations have done an excellent job of persuading their white collar workers to work pretty much all the time...laptops for travel, computers at home tied to the corporate network, etc. And the fear level about losing the job is always palpable, with the resultant loss of lifestyle, etc.
Second, the middle class has gotten too comfortable. Expensive homes, cars and toys make whatever free time seem luxurious, but also bind one more firmly into the the first scenario. So, there is little time left for intelligent or moral thought about politics or even life (and make no mistake, these days more than ever, politics is life). And, of course, the need to be part of the crowd, fit in at the office so as not to rock the boat, etc., etc. And you can be assured that with very few exceptions, the bosses are Republicans. Hey, that's where the wealth is, right?

Posted by: Harry at January 17, 2006 05:38 PM

We OWN you, Man!



-- Johnny Liberty

Posted by: Johnny Liberty at January 17, 2006 11:13 PM

We OWN you, Man!



-- China

Posted by: floopmeister at January 17, 2006 11:32 PM

First: you can vote at 18.
Thus your comment should have been 16 to 17 year olds.
Second: Iran has been playing with the EU over this for 2 years. Give us aid(money) and we will not continue. Two months or so later. We are going to start back if you dont give us money. So on and so on.
Third: If you are going to speak of impeachment, please give the reason you seek to impeach the president.

Fourth: When did a measure of sanity become wither or not I agree with you? Like the people who pushed back the drinking age to 21. They said that 18 year olds where not mature, because they did not make the choices that the busy bodies wanted them to.


Posted by: Brian at January 18, 2006 06:16 PM

Um, yes, many Americans are delusional. The some 30% of the population that the neo-cons have recruited as core followers in their drive for power often admit that they dream of "returning" the nation to a hellish condition of minorities being considered mere property, of a few rich ruling a mass population of wretched peons, and of non-christians being burned at the stake; an imaginary combination of all our worst historical periods.

So now is no time for those around the world who are sane to turn on each other. Let us not forget that other countries have been ruled by crazies from time to time. China, Germany, Italy, the list is long (and Russia just seems to go from one oppression to the next without pause). Even Canadians and Aussies have suffered; they just never had the military might to project their manias on others (except the Inuits, "Indonesians" and Abos?). Britain and France aren't particularly well administered at the moment, by the way, but I don't see mobs jamming the streets every day demanding Blair's removal (for example). I'm sure the people around the Mediterranean hated Rome even more after the Caesars took over, but the crimes pre- and post-empire weren't really the fault of every Roman. As usual, the real blame belongs with the wealthy and powerful.

Yes, some worldwide method of premanently restraining the mentally ill from attaining power needs to be found. A few of them helpfully wear swastikas and such to identify themselves, but that is not enough.

True, the Democratic party long ago was bought off at the top by the wealthy even as the republicans were, and when Dean reinvigorated the electorate with the possibility of real reform, the DLC quickly threw together a fund of tens of millions of dollars, used it to smash Dean's campaign in favor of their tame drone Kerry, and then returned to their smoke-filled rooms.

Yep, many American liberals are confused or in disagreement, and therefore ineffective. With no trustworthy source of education or information, this is not surprising. Please remember that interest in history and current events is actively suppressed in the public education system and media sources of this nation.

Moreover, since the McCarthy witchhunt Americans have had to be increasingly brave merely to call themselves liberal, much less take any action. Any less-than-ultra-reactionary group (Quakers! vegetarians!?!) has been closely watched, infiltrated and sabotaged, even if doing so violated the law. The assassinations of Kennedy, Kennedy and King confirmed the fate of anyone actually attempting reform.

Worldwide, the public is always reluctant to take to the streets until they are certain that the situation is truly dire, and modern mass media used as propaganda makes Hitler's big lies seem like the most clumsy of weak bluster. This new tool allows issues to continually be blurred and concealed and the public distracted and stampeded. People around the world are routinely shocked when they discover just how little most Americans know about the world and what has been done in their name.

Dictatorships are always overconfident, but the republicans really seem to think they have covered every contingency and cannot be displaced. Following the 1960s the government made certain that it was not vulnerable to armed coup (even though there was never any danger of it), placing a SWAT team in every little burg (no matter how peaceful), setting up secure nationwide communications, et cetera. (If you doubt their paranoia, just watch the unseemly rush to "undisclosed locations" everytime a single small plane appears over the horizon near DC.) With rigged elections and courts and the tame media to keep the public confused and divided, the current rulers clearly (according to Tom Delay himself) believe that nothing can displace them *for at least 40 years, no matter how much the citizenry disapprove*.

Personally, I see no immediate solution.

Johnny - Actually, you have it exactly backwards. As floopmeister says, "China (the nation) owns us." If they even so much as pause in supporting the gigantic debt that the current administration has run up, our economy will collapse into a depression much worse than even the "great" one. So no matter what tough talk comes out of the republican speechwriters, China will be getting pretty much whatever it wants for some time to come. You may have to learn to bow to them.

Posted by: citizen at January 19, 2006 09:13 AM

Citizen.... you got it! Excellent analysis. China (with India, S. America) are center stage on the world economic picture. China, in fact, owns us!!! If they call in the U.S. debts as the banks did in 1929, this country would be instant toast.

Brian, gets some smarts dude! A good place to start is the site "Project for a New American Century." If you are not already familiar with this web, then you will learn what the mission statements and goals are for the present BushCo neo-con leadership. It's all there.

Also Brian, look up the recent publication led by Congressman John Conyers titled "Constitution in Crisis." There you will find a day by day historical timeline of the illegal, deceptive and corrupt practices to date by the Bush administration. Please note that the information within is footnoted with original sources. Also note that this information comes from all sides of the political spectrum as Republicans and Democrats BOTH offer damning evidence against BushCo. These facts CANNOT be disputed. To date no Bush Co representative has come forward to dispute or take these facts into a court of law, which should tell you that they have no basis to refute these proofs. Outside the court of law they merely deny, deny and deny and then accuse any questioning or dissenting voice as unpatriotic or worse. Unforutnately the MSM cuddle and give BushCo an arena to whine and accuse. Sad.

Speking of impeachable offenses, recent news has come forward from an ambassador of England who has solid first person evidence and experience of U.S./CIA involvment and economic support of illegal torture and mass killing in Uzbekistan. This ambassador has been predictably sacked by Blair this last year for his public statements about the inhumane practices in Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan is the most populous Central Asian country and has the largest armed forces. There is no real internal opposition and the media is tightly controlled by the state. A UN report has described the use of torture as "systematic". This makes Hussein's history, in the words of the ambassador, look like child's play. Yet Uzbekistan is one of Bush's prized "coalition of the willing" members! Go figure. And you, Brian, ask such uniformed questions about impeachment. Do your homework son and stopp parroting what you are told or want to believe.

Posted by: Fried Friar at January 20, 2006 11:47 AM

As an American, all I can say is, "All hail the American Empire."

Seriously, at this rate, how many years before we get a bill in Congress lobbying to change our name to that? Ten? Twenty?

Assuming, of course, that the tens of thousands of anti-American terrorists we've created by murdering civilians all across the Mid-East don't kill us all with dirty-bombs within the next generation or two.

Strategists, our Administarion has not.

Posted by: Greensten at January 20, 2006 03:49 PM

If you are going to talk about impeachment, then you should state the reason you want the impeachment. Not just that you want it. No constructive dialog can be accomplished without stating your points. Other wise it is rant. And will be ignored. I was simply trying to understand his point. What he wanted Bush to be impeached for.
I do not trust anything that a elected member of governments says. They all are very good a saying what you want to here without meaning anything. The only thing I trust about them, is that they will do whatever is in their best interest. Trust the liberal or conservatives at your own peril.
I do not parrot anyone or anything. History of the Middle east will show you that they are the hardest bargainers that you will ever find. This is simply a bargaining chip for them. Just like it was for North Korea. Who we paid not to develop nuclear weapons. Yes paid. That did not work out. Personally, I do not care if any country on the face of the earth has nuclear weapons. To use them will invite retaliation from all sides. The countries that I would not want to face are France, Germany, or Russia. They will bloody the culprit and not care if the media is screaming bloody murder. Oh wait their media can not criticize the government. They all have laws that they hold over the head of the news organizations. Sure they can publish dirty laundry. But any real criticism gets smashed flat. Unless it serves the a political group.
What I would like to see is a break up of the two party system we have. If we had ten or more parties then if would be very difficult for anyone to make a grab for power.


Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2006 08:45 PM