Comments: An Experiment in Politeness

Politeness be damned. I know I shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but just looking at that baby-faced little cretin lying through his teeth makes me want to vomit.

Posted by NomadUK at February 22, 2011 02:29 AM

maybe mcgovern should have said "don't taser me, man." then ross could say "and he was spouting the same old tired anti-establishment line."

Posted by hapa at February 22, 2011 04:20 AM

When Jonathan says someone as polite and rational as myself assumes everyone has good intentions, my response is to once again quote a Bob Dylan song:

Democracy don't rule the world,
You'd better get that in your head.
This world is ruled by violence
But I guess that's better left unsaid.

I guess you could say that I'm spouting the same old tired anti-establishment line.

But seriously, is Ross intentionally lying here, or is he just doing what most people do most of the time, remembering things the way that makes sense to him, rather than the way they happened?

Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between weakness and malice.

Other times -- less hard.

Posted by mistah charley, ph.d. at February 22, 2011 08:40 AM

Don't get mad, get even.

Posted by Mike Meyer at February 22, 2011 11:16 AM

It sounds like another routine day for the empire. When was the last time any of these apparatchiks gave an honest answer? At least he didn't steal anyone's credit card info.

Posted by Edward at February 22, 2011 12:48 PM

Clinton needs to have her CPU. removed.

Posted by demize! at February 22, 2011 01:53 PM

Wouldn't the ideal solution in the circumstances be for the police to discreetly request of Ray McGovern, "Sir, we would like to ask for you to leave. Would you comply?" And then to escort him out?

It seems to me that this is actually a very regular-occurring police-brutality issue rather than one of censorship. This is no more or less outrageous than police beating people up anywhere. The content of Hillary's speech is irrelevant; the point is that like anyone else, veteran or no, McGovern deserves to be treated with dignity during the process of having his guest status to the speech revoked. He does not, however, have a right to protest that particular speech, because it was held on the grounds of GWU, to which he was, legally speaking, invited.

Posted by Myles at February 22, 2011 04:37 PM
When was the last time any of these apparatchiks gave an honest answer? At least he didn't steal anyone's credit card info.

+10 pts.

Posted by saurabh at February 22, 2011 04:55 PM

What if one had to go to the toilet in the middle of the speach?

Posted by Mike Meyer at February 22, 2011 06:06 PM

@mike myer

If its a Hilary (or bill) speech, it think its appropriate to just leave one on the seat.

Posted by Blackplates at February 22, 2011 06:35 PM

Maybe large masses of people should start going to the toilet in the middle of HRC's speeches. We could start a trend.

Posted by grimmy at February 22, 2011 07:13 PM

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-violent_revolution#Peaceful_revolution

Posted by Dean Taylor at February 22, 2011 08:40 PM

@DeanTaylor_

@wikileaks Wisconsin Governor betrays self about planting provocateurs: "Punked by Fake Koch Call"
http://ad.vu/6ymq RT @FireDogLake


Posted by Dean Taylor at February 23, 2011 11:37 AM

his own account of what he did, and why -

Standing Up to War and Hillary Clinton

By Ray McGovern
February 23, 2011


http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/022311b.html

Posted by mistah 'MICFiC' charley, ph.d. at February 23, 2011 02:22 PM

Breaking News on MSNBC: Hillary condems the violence against protesters just speaking out for their rights.

America: Ya git the gummint ya deserve.

Posted by Mike Meyer at February 23, 2011 03:25 PM

I should have quoted Ray McGovern's opening sentence:

It was not until Secretary of State Hillary Clinton walked to the George Washington University podium last week to enthusiastic applause that I decided I had to dissociate myself from the obsequious adulation of a person responsible for so much death, suffering and destruction.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/022311b.html

Posted by mistah charley, ph.d. at February 23, 2011 03:45 PM

"Sometimes its hard to distinguish between weakness and malice. . ."

It's also hard to decide which does more harm.

Posted by N E at February 23, 2011 05:50 PM

I posted the following on the radio show's comments page:

Alec Ross Falsely Corrects Kojo re McGovern's Arrest - McGovern was NOT yelling until AFTER he was arrested

From the Kojo Nnamdi show of February 21, 2011

KOJO NNAMDI: On the case of Ray McGovern, that was brought up by several people...Ray McGovern of course was a protester, a silent protester, at a George Washington speech delivered by Secretary Clinton. Video showed him being escorted out—or in the eyes of some, being brutally roughed up.

ALEC ROSS: Yes, so, he was a handful of rows away from me, and he wasn't silent. [Chuckles] You know, Hillary Clinton was trying to give a speech, and he was yelling. So, look, you know, he was a guest, and if you're going to stand there and make a lot of noise when the Secretary of State is trying to give a speech, then, you know, you're probably going to be an unwelcome guest. I will say that I didn't see him being "roughed up." I mean, I didn't see until the end there, but my point of view was that cops did exactly what they ought to do. That's their job.

[end of quote from show transcript]

Ross's version is contradicted by McGovern's own account:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/18/ex_cia_analyst_ray_mcgovern_beaten


So, people remember things differently. Let's go to the videotape.

The video posted at the WAMU website never SHOWS us McGovern, but the first we hear from him is when he yells "So this is America" at 2:08 elapsed time. A different video of the same event, from PBS, shows McGovern being grabbed and wrestled about before he says this. I saw this video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzPZcIzDWjg&feature=player_embedded

It's perfectly clear that Alec Ross's claim that McGovern was "mak[ing] a lot of noise when the Secretary of State is trying to give a speech" is false. Since Ross states that he was present, the contradiction between what the tape shows and what Ross says is indicative of what I would call, euphemistically, "motivated misremembering".

KOJO - has Alec Ross offered to retract his false claim about McGovern, or would he be willing to do so? Even if he doesn't, will YOU correct the record?

Posted by mistah charley, ph.d. at February 24, 2011 02:31 PM