Comments: A Plea for Sanity

Well considering that Israel as a nation did not exist during WWI, not only is this argument facetious, it gives the impression that the Ottoman Empire was 'innocent' during WWI

Posted by Greytdog at June 5, 2010 09:37 AM

No matter how the relationship between the two countries deteriorates, Israel will always agree with Turkey on this matter: it's simply a coincidence that some Armenians were killed at the same time that other Armenians were being killed. The point, for Israel, is that The Holocaust -- the murder of six million Jews in Europe by the Nazis -- is a sacred and special event to which nothing else can be compared. No other systematic mass killings devastating any other ethnic group can be identified as a "holocaust", lest The Holocaust lose its value as a justification for any international crime that Israel may need to commit in the future.

Posted by fred at June 5, 2010 11:43 AM

Ooops! Running very close to Holocaust Denial there!

Posted by fred at June 5, 2010 11:44 AM

". . . it's simply a coincidence that some Armenians were killed at the same time that other Armenians were being killed."

Good one, Fred.

Posted by catherine at June 5, 2010 12:21 PM


Regarding your P.S., my thoughts exactly! I wonder if Pres. Obama will now finally officially condemn the Armenian genocide as retribution for Turkey's stance against Israel?

Posted by pb at June 5, 2010 12:43 PM

Great minds think alike, though that doesn't really apply here because it's so obvious. Anyway, I was thinking exactly the same thing. All those years where the Armenian genocide was denied by some Israel supporters --that's just come to an end.

And I've also seen Israel supporters pointing out that Turkey kills Kurds as though it was something that's been played down. Gee, given that the US arms Turkey, I wonder why? Chomsky was pointing this out (he in turn was citing Human Rights Watch) back in the 90's.

Posted by Donald Johnson at June 5, 2010 01:22 PM

I'd say the Israeli rejection of the "genocide" label for Turkey's Armenian slaughter had at least as much to do with their "ownership" of the term and their reluctance to recognize the suffering of any group but their own. Or not. (And, no - that doesn't apply to "Jews" as a "whole". It applies to those within the Israeli government and propaganda machine that play the Shoah card at every hint of criticism. It's sad that I have to state that as a disclaimer but at this point I can almost picture the foam gathering around someone's mouth as they prepare to shriek "Anti-Semite!!!")

As previous comments have noted, Turkey was not only a leading recipient of US military aid well through the 90s, but also had a human rights record that could make Avigdor green with envy. Now they seem to be, whether by choice or not, the go-to regime for groups formerly counting on Iran's support. The latter has been very quiet throughout this entire chapter...

Posted by the pair at June 5, 2010 03:31 PM

Now that Turkey is becoming an enemy of Israel (touched off by the Turkish effort to broker a deal with Iran ANd the flotilla massacre), Israelis may even go beyond acknowledging the Armenian holocaust. They can conveniently remember that they are genetically and historically related to Kurds and Armenians, and maybe the Israeli media will even remind them that ancestors of the Armenians and Kurds were once also practitioners of Judaism and fought alongside Judae against Rome during the first Jewish holocaust two millenia ago.

I can imagine articles appearing about Queen Helen of Adabiene (in present-day Kurdish Iraq) and King Agbar of Edessa (Urfa during the Ottoman empire and Sanliurfa today), the rulers of the kingdoms that fought the Romans with Judae. A few sources apparently suggest that King Agbar and Queen Helen were married, and Queen Helen's palace in Jerusalem was destroyed with the city and the Temple when the Romans sacked Jerusalem in A.D. 70. (An archeologist found the ruins a couple of years ago.) It could all make a great patriotic movie.

Posted by N E at June 5, 2010 05:12 PM
After the fallout from the flotilla killings I'm guessing the Knesset even now is drafting a resolution in which Israel will suddenly discover it's outraged!!! by the Ottoman Empire's actions during World War I.

Yes Mr Schwarz. That is a distinct possibility!!. BUT, this is a certainty......
"Israeli Commando Who Killed Six Aid Workers to Receive Medal"
This guy SINGLE-HANDEDLY KILLED six and stabilised the situation. His medal is well deserved!

ps wonder who is learning from whom! the USA govt from Israeli govt or vice versa i.e generosity in giving out medals to the most deserving!

Posted by Rupa Shah at June 5, 2010 06:07 PM

A lot of yuks, great laughs, BUT on a lighter note, who denounces who, be it Israel, Turkey, or the Kurds WILL be determined by U&I. Whatever fits OUR needs, determined by OUR Administration, for US, IS the narative that all three WILL jump to and be in agreement thereof. History be damned, the REAL winner writes the history.
By the by, in The Judaeic Religion a Holocaust is a massive BLOOD SACRIFICE, usually of clean animals raised specifically for the occasion. BUT since the last century, could mean persons (Jews) raised specifically for the occasion.

Posted by Mike Meyer at June 5, 2010 06:12 PM

Rupa Shah: The FBI Guy at Ruby Ridge got a medal, AND he even MISSED the target EVERY time. So I guess that WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE can say, with complete assurance, "ME FIRST."

Posted by Mike Meyer at June 5, 2010 06:22 PM

Well, given they've suddenly just become outraged!!! at the discovery that South Africa was an apartheid state, I reckon they could manage this.

Incidentally, Greytdog, don't go around telling any zios you meet that Israel didn't exist during the First World War. Israel has been a nation since the conquest of Canaan, don't you know. While, at the same time, there's still no such thing as an "Israeli".

Posted by weaver at June 6, 2010 12:12 AM

An Israeli commando killed 6 people and he won a medal? Nu?? Henry Kissinger ordered the carpet-bombing of Cambodia for 14 months in a campaign that killed 600,000 peasants and then won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. Now THAT'S an accomplishment!

Posted by Josh Gilbert at June 6, 2010 07:46 AM

Fred, The crime of Holocaust Contextualization is actually a more insidious crime than Denial. Watch your back!

Posted by Minor Player at June 6, 2010 02:37 PM

Here are the nine people killed on the flotilla if anyone hasn't seen them yet.

Posted by N E at June 6, 2010 09:36 PM

SNIP "for decades Israel has happily assisted Turkey by denying that the Armenian genocide was in fact genocide."

Oh well, we all know there is only ONE genocide, eternal and sacrosanct in all of human history.Thats because there is only one people set apart by god himself. No other lives are worth troubling over.

Posted by Marc at June 7, 2010 02:14 PM