Comments: Time for Another Beer with Obama

We can't have SS vs. Die Polizei... It makes it seem as if the state's power is arbitrarily enforced. :)

Posted by stupidBaby at July 27, 2009 01:18 PM

On a related, albeit somewhat different note, has anyone here seen this fascinating video regarding why one shouldn't speak to cops?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

This is another interesting video (The citizens guide to surviving police encounters):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&feature=related


Posted by Don Fernando at July 27, 2009 01:42 PM

The details are in a report released Wednesday by the Immigration Justice Clinic of the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law. It describes a campaign of illegal home invasions waged by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents from 2006 to 2008 on Long Island and in New Jersey.

So the crimes in question took place under the Bush administration, but we can still tag Obama with the future-crime of beer-having-with-police. Good job, Bernard, don't let him off the hook!

Posted by SteveB at July 27, 2009 02:53 PM

Come on, SteveB, you know Obama isn't the point of this post.

Posted by Bernard Chazelle at July 27, 2009 03:42 PM

Sorry, but the "Next thing you know, Obama will be having a beer with these guys!" joke seemed like a cheap shot and distraction from your main point (or at least it had that effect on me.)

You know how us Demobots go on the attack when Our Dear Leader is criticized.

Posted by SteveB at July 27, 2009 03:52 PM

Well, OK SteveB, what has Obama done about these crimes and follies performed in the name of Americans? The country has been turned over to sub-normals and armed them with guns, tasers, and immunity to enforce anti-democratic laws. These abuses don't happen only in exotic locales like Guntanamo, Afaganistan and Cambridge, MA, they happen all over the country and Obama should speak out against it.

Posted by drip at July 27, 2009 04:46 PM

When "unaccountability" and "impunity" are gifted on a platter to the "Law and Order" dept, in a democratic police state, its members will be foolish not to use it.
Fortunately, at least in this report, no one was killed. Otherwise, it could easily turn into a "self defense" case! A young lawyer friend who works in the Public Defender's office claimed, "The cops ALWAYS lie and they have a lot of credibility with the Prosecutor's office"! And abuses go on all the time.

The raids were supposed to be a hunt for gang members and other dangerous criminal fugitives, but two-thirds of those arrested were happenstance targets — Latinos with civil immigration violations

If they were looking for gang members and dangerous criminals, how did they end up breaking into the homes of Latinos two-thirds of the time?
I guess, in a democratic police state, "The Quality of Intelligence" is as crummy as the Law and Order dept! Or is it?

Posted by Rupa Shah at July 27, 2009 05:07 PM

what has Obama done about these crimes and follies performed in the name of Americans?

When ICE was doing workplace raids like the one in Postville, IA, it wasn't hard to get information about them. Since Obama's inauguration, I haven't seen any reports of similar large-scale ICE raids (I'm not saying I'm absolutely sure they haven't happened, just that I haven't seen reports, and I'm on a couple of listserves of people who follow these things.)

Of course, there could be other nasty stuff going on in secret, which we'll only hear about later.

Posted by SteveB at July 27, 2009 05:39 PM

http://raidreport.blogspot.com/

Posted by AlanSmithee at July 27, 2009 06:07 PM

SteveB:
The last major raid in Chicago was in Sep 2008 ( before Obama administration).
http://www.ww4report.com/node/6052

However, currently some changes are underway in ICE-DHS and CCR is not happy with it as the information on its website is vague ( I believe ) and hence CCR has sent them a document asking for clarifications. It is current and I did not get a chance to read the whole document but posibility of similar future actions by ICE can not be ruled out. Of course, I hope ( I know, I am considered naive), Obama will not allow that to happen but I am not holding my breath.

"The Center for Constitutional Rights and the National Immigration Project of the National Lawyers Guild submit the following comments in response to the Department of notice of information collection for the ICE Secure Communities Stakeholder ID Assessment Questionnaire, Form 70-008, 74 Fed. Reg. 28712 (June 17, 2009)".

http://ccrjustice.org/files/_Secure%20Comm-CCR-NIP%20-%20FINAL%2071509.doc

The following para will give you a rough idea of what CCR thinks.

"Because of our experience responding to queries, requests for assistance on custody issues in immigration and criminal detention, the National Immigration Project strongly opposes the release of the current version of the ICE Secure Communities Stakeholder ID Assessment Questionnaire. Based on our experience with immigration detention, human rights and litigation for changes in the criminal justice system, the Center for Constitutional Rights strongly objects to the questionnaire as well."

Posted by Rupa Shah at July 27, 2009 06:24 PM

SO, according to the link given by AlanSmithee ( thank you for the same ), raids and sweeps ARE continuing! I guess, "THEY ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB"!

Posted by Rupa Shah at July 27, 2009 06:49 PM

In addition to stopping such practices (which may or may not happen) and irrespective of who ordered the raids (and the torture) the current administration is responsible for investigating and prosecuting the perpetrators, if appropriate. Obama is responsible for at least these steps.

Posted by drip at July 27, 2009 06:56 PM

Not only is Obama not trying to undo the many criminal policies of Bush instead of covering them up, and continuing those most of those policies, but Obama didn't just appear from the clouds in January, he was a Senator who took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies. Yet he opposed holding Bush accountable then, as now. He has long been paid a salary by taxpayer money, gathered through the threat of imprisonment, and violated his sworn duties every single day.

Posted by Marcus at July 28, 2009 01:33 AM

SteveB, the argument goes like this:

1. American police forces are out of hand, flagrantly abusing their power and infringing civil liberties, and they have been for years, as shown in these statistics on raids.

2. Obama took office in January.

3. When the first opportunity arose for Obama to send a message about how such police abuses should be treated -- namely, an incident in which a cop illegally handcuffed and arrested an old man in his own home for being the wrong color and being uppity -- Obama invited the cop to the White House for a beer.

4. If you're a cop in the USA, what's the take-home?

Posted by Picador at July 28, 2009 11:16 AM

If you're a cop in the USA, what's the take-home?

Um, that power relationships between the police and the citzenry haven't changed?

What do I win?

Posted by SteveB at July 28, 2009 06:52 PM

A visit from ICE. Got your citizenship papers in order?

Posted by drip at July 28, 2009 07:51 PM

ICE should forgo the warrantless raids and simply pick up those in the country illegally at their hiring spots where they congregate every morning.

I live in Suffolk County NY (LI) and there most surely is a immigration problem I can drive through my town in the morning and there are on average 200-300 "illegals" waiting to be hired out at any given time. To say these men aren't taking jobs from the "locals" is to close your eyes and say there aren't any immigration problems.

Until such a time as a solution (amnesty) to the immigration problem is agreed upon those who collect my taxes and have sworn to uphold the laws (all laws we just can't pick and choose) of the land these people here illegally (illegally being the key word) need to be deported.

Additionally many of the illegal immigrants are here for one purpose making money. They have no desire to assimulate and become an American citizen.

To paraphrase Ghandi, They don't feed the cow they only milk the cow.

Posted by Persona non grata at July 29, 2009 12:31 PM

To say these men aren't taking jobs from the "locals" is to close your eyes and say there aren't any immigration problems.

Bullshit analogy. I suppose you can point out large groups of Long Islanders waiting to be picked up to do menial labor.

Oh, that's right, you can't, because they don't exist. You're not the only person who has worked or lived in Long Island.

The raids aren't done to pick these people up, the raids are done to terrorize them. Further, if you wanted to end immigration you could just arrest the white people hiring them -- who helpfully show up and identify themselves every morning.

These people are harder working than many Americans I know and cannot become citizens with any degree of ease since it costs several grand to get the process off the ground. The idea that they have no desire to "assimulate" is simple bigotry -- the above poster doesn't know that. Hell, I doubt he's even talked to them.

The immigrants wouldn't even need to be here if a bipartisan consensus hadn't passed NAFTA and wrecked the Mexican economy. One of the intended results of that law was an uptick in illegal immigration, granting corps and local businesses a labor pool that's easily cowed by violence and is a good scapegoat for every other racist around. Looks like it's working beautifully.

Posted by No One of Consequence at July 29, 2009 05:52 PM

Bullshit analogy. I suppose you can point out large groups of Long Islanders waiting to be picked up to do menial labor.

Just because the "illegals" are waiting to be picked up doesn't mean the labor they provide is without value thus showing that if the menial laborers employers were forced to pay prevailing wages for their labor employment opportunities would open for unskilled workers on LI.

Additionally I run a small business on LI which operates in the new housing construction industry.

When contractors employe "illegals" it often means the worker is being paid in cash which allows the employer to play book-keeping games thus lessening the fees associated with aquiring and retaining workmens compensation insurance, liabitlity insurance and excess umbrella insurance which are all based upon a percentage of gross payroll.

Oh, that's right, you can't, because they don't exist. You're not the only person who has worked or lived in Long Island.

And just what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

The idea that they have no desire to "assimulate" is simple bigotry -- the above poster doesn't know that. Hell, I doubt he's even talked to them.

Wrong!
It is not simple bigotry it is fact.

If "illegals" are so inclined to assimulate why is it that many of them simply work here seasonally while sending money back "home" to their families so they may provide for a better existence in their native lands?

Why do so many "illegals" live in their own national specific enclaves with no desire to intergrate into the local community at large?

I'm all for legal immigration where peoples may migrate where ever their hearts desire so long as they are willing to learn the local culture, language and assimulate.

Are they leaving their homelands to make a better life in the US or are they just milking the cow with out feeding it?

Posted by Persona non grata at July 30, 2009 05:50 PM

"I'm all for legal immigration where peoples may migrate where ever their hearts desire so long as they are willing to learn the local culture, language and assimulate. "

How come you're not speaking Algonquian then?

Posted by ichomobothogogus at August 1, 2009 06:10 AM