Comments: Telling the Truth About Palestinian Moral Failings

I gotta give Goldberg credit for one thing--he's smart enough not to have a comment section on his blog. It's bad when you're dumb and callous and hypocritical and people have a forum to point this out in detail, something that would be easy to do with his record.

Posted by Donald Johnson at January 7, 2009 01:12 PM

I wonder, though, what Goldberg thinks of the Israelis who sit on hilltops and ooh and aah over the pretty explosions, or the Americans who watched that stuff on CNN back in 2003, or John Burns in the NYT admiringly comparing the US air force to the power of the gods. Some war porn is worse than others, I guess.

Posted by Donald Johnson at January 7, 2009 01:18 PM

This needs Bernard's touch -- I'm sure he was in Khan Younis on that fateful day, too.

Posted by Aunt Deb at January 7, 2009 01:42 PM
I actually saw gunmen unwrap a shrouded body, carry it a hundred yards and position it atop a pile of rubble...

Did Goldberg actually hang around in the same spot in Khan Younis for a half hour just watching the scene unfold? Was he drinking a Coke and just passing the time with his non-Hamas buddies?

Where'd they find the body, I wonder? Could it have been some other pile of rubble?

Posted by darrelplant at January 7, 2009 03:08 PM

Evidently there is a surplus of “truths” to be had especially when reading anything in the U.S. news media which has been very creative when it comes to truth. Here is some truth that may be hard for some to swallow.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question.

I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.

Via Chris Floyd

http://www.chris-floyd.com/

Posted by Rob Payne at January 7, 2009 03:18 PM

Why is Mr Goldberg not in Gaza NOW?

This is a great opportunity for him to report on MORALITY when Israelis have commmitted a massacre and are trying to hide it by bulldozing homes and shooting at ICRC lead Red Crescent workers and preventing them from taking the injured to hospitals?

Concerns had been growing that Zeitoun had witnessed massive civilian casualties after surviving members of the Samouni clan reached Gaza City three days ago.

They said that after the Israeli army first took the town on Saturday night soldiers had ordered about 100 members of the clan to gather in a single house owned by Wael Samouni around dawn on Sunday.

At 6.35am on Monday the house was repeatedly shelled with appalling loss of civilian life.

"Gaza medics describe horror of strike which killed 70"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4162193/Gaza-medics-describe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html

Posted by Rupa Shah at January 7, 2009 04:03 PM

So... the children are killed either by accident or by mistake? Which one of those is "We didn't care whether they lived or died"?

Posted by saurabh at January 7, 2009 05:20 PM

Displaying the bodies of people murdered is an ancient custom. When the Clantons were shot down by the Earps, their bodies were displayed with a sign: "Murdered in the streets of Tombstone."

Posted by will shetterly at January 7, 2009 08:56 PM

Displaying the bodies of people murdered is an ancient custom.

I wondered about that. I don't know why but it does seem like a natural thing to do.

Posted by cemmcs at January 7, 2009 09:02 PM

I don't know why you're all so pessimistic. According to G.W., peace is going to break out between now and the 20th of January. The citizens of Gaza just need to hold on for a few more days...

Posted by Hank at January 7, 2009 09:39 PM

> It's a terrible, ghastly, horrible thing, the
> deaths of children, and for the parents it
> doesn't matter if they were killed by accident or
> by mistake.

If a party fires a missile into a school filled with refugees, this is not a mistake or an accident, but a willful choice to murder innocents & children.

> But ask yourselves this: Why are these pictures
> so omnipresent?

The answer is simpler than Goldberg makes it out to be. It seems that over 90 children have died in this latest attack on Gaza. So presumably that is the reason, horrifying as it is to contemplate: there are plenty of dead children around.

Posted by erik at January 7, 2009 10:23 PM

cemmcs, people show the murdered as a call for justice. Fearing justice, killers hide their victims.

Posted by will shetterly at January 7, 2009 10:50 PM

It seems pretty clear from the attached story (see link to NYT) that Gazans generally have a sick attachment to their corpses. Don't these babies know their mothers are dead?

Sometimes we need to move on.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article?a=293467&f=20

Posted by Seth at January 8, 2009 10:31 AM

Seth: I believe your comment demonstrates a pathological mental derangement. Please find a good therapist and get on Xanax or something.

Posted by Baldie McEagle at January 8, 2009 10:49 AM

I appreciate the freedom with which people on this site level accusations of mental derangement at me, even when my comments are entirely consistent with the intent and tone of the original post.

Posted by Seth at January 8, 2009 11:26 AM

Dual Loyalty. Not always an anti-Semitic slur, but sometimes an unfortunate fact.

Posted by ColinLaney at January 8, 2009 01:17 PM

Dual Loyalty. Not always an anti-Semitic slur, but sometimes an unfortunate fact.

Nah, most people like Goldberg would kick Israel overboard in a second if American power required it.

Posted by Jonathan Schwarz at January 8, 2009 02:21 PM

Colin:

For your comment to make logical sense, wouldn't you want to say "Dual loyalty: USUALLY an anti-Semitic slur but sometimes an unfortunate fact."

I knew it was just a matter of time before this came up here.
Most hardcore Zionists in this country are Christians-by the millions and millions. How come nobody points a finger at their loyalty?

And who on this site thinks loyalty to anything but humanity is a virtue?

Posted by Seth at January 8, 2009 03:06 PM

Yeah, but didn't you guys see? Goldberg linked to a prayer for the children of Gaza. See, it doesn't count if you don't really mean to kill them, and if you pray for them.

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/a_jewish_prayer_for_the_childr.php


Posted by Xanthippas at January 8, 2009 04:40 PM

Um, yeah, Seth's first comment was in agreement with the post and everyone else.

On the hardcore Zionist thing, I frequently bash the Christian variety. They're fairly common and some politicians who whitewash Israel's sins fall into this camp. Others are clearly pandering to AIPAC, and then you've got liberals of all varieties who get skittish about criticizing Israel because they think someone will call them an antisemite.

I never much liked the dual loyalty thing accusation anyway--it has unsavory connotations.

Posted by Donald Johnson at January 8, 2009 05:16 PM

Seth: Your second comment is completely sane and correct. Not only are the Zionists overwhelmingly Christian---in numbers, if not proportionally---but they run Congress and the administration.

Posted by Baldie McEagle at January 8, 2009 09:22 PM

Evil under rich republican rule has fluorished. And they don't want to held responsible for their irresponsibile actions, unrestricted spending, Enjoy the next few years you dimwit rich republican isreali supporters you will not suffer but real Iraqis will, and real working class americans will , I truly believe that republican leadership will not be happy until they have created another civil war! They will profit, While the rest of Us deal with their old rich republican jewish misiformation tactics.

Posted by ken phillips at January 9, 2009 12:46 AM

Why is it so hard for people to believe that Hamas has no morals and are willing to use their own people dead or alive to get sympathy (which clearly works) Americans blindly followed Bush when he quickly said that terrorist are responsible for 9/11 and that they are located in Afghanistan and now look where that got you. Israel did not start this war. Hamas was been firing rockets at Israel getting deeper and deeper. Hamas is a terrorist organization just like the U.S is fighting in Afghanistan or is the Iraq maybe Iran or is it Somalia (that's right they even went there) the U.S has destroyed the lives of not only it's own but of several other countries. Israel is trying to end Hamas reign of terror peacefully. Israel calls any place they are about to bomb and warns them to get of the building but do you know what Hamas does they come out of their bunker underneath the building (or school) and tells people if they leave they will die. When Israel last bombed a school i think it was Hamas took 200+ people many of them babies and sat them on the roof waiting for the rocket to come. How is Israel supposed to fight that, they have warned the people what more can they do unless you expect Israel to lay down and let Hamas in every sense of the word "rape" them. I do not blame Palestinians for what is happening but i do blame them for democratically electing a known terrorist organization but what choice did they have. Israel is not at war with Palestinian it is at war with the terrorist just like the U.S it is at war with HAMAS. I live in Canada and all local Jewish building are afraid of Hamas and all building have updated their security. The Jews in Canada are living in fear of the power of Hamas while some Palestinians even in Gaza see Israel as a liberator.

Posted by Avi Laufer at January 9, 2009 01:24 AM

"The Jews in Canada are living in fear of the power of Hamas while some Palestinians even in Gaza see Israel as a liberator."
Wow... I'm not sure which of those is more jaw dropping.

Posted by Strangely Enough at January 9, 2009 02:13 AM

We've crossed the fever line folks.

Posted by Seth at January 9, 2009 09:56 AM

Why is it so hard for people to believe that Hamas has no morals and are willing to use their own people dead or alive to get sympathy

Well, it would help if the IDF would quit bombing civilians and giving the rest of us someone to feel sorry for.

Posted by Xanthippas at January 9, 2009 10:20 AM

"Well, it would help if the IDF would quit bombing civilians and giving the rest of us someone to feel sorry for."

And what should the IDF do in the mean time the same thing Hamas is? put Israelis lives at risk just to gain sympathy. Why should they why let people get killed one it's not necessary. Hamas on the other hand is forcing people into building that are known to be victims of bomb strikes. if you go to youtube and watch videos of Israel bomb droppings you will see that there is a secondary explosion after the bomb. That is the Hamas ammunition exploding which they decided to hide in schools. So tell me is it not enough that the IDF cries over every innocent life that they kill or should the take those bodies and use them to gain sympathy. when you say "the rest of us someone to feel sorry for" who and what do you mean. You should feel sorry for all those people who loose their lives in Gaza what you should understand is the it's not the IDF's fault that those civilians are dying it is Hamas that chose to put there weapon base there and on purpose. If the IDF did stop the bombing what would happen do you think Hamas a terrorist group that has said on more the one occasion they want nothing more then to see Israel wiped off the map will stop the bombing like that or will they see Israel as weak on bomb even harder. Is the only way you can see sympathy with a group by the death of innocent?

Posted by Avi Laufer at January 9, 2009 11:03 PM

Israel could just fire an equal number and weight of rockets into Gaza instead of bombing them.

Posted by Mike Meyer at January 10, 2009 06:24 PM

"Israel could just fire an equal number and weight of rockets into Gaza instead of bombing them"

Ever hear of the game punch for a punch if someone started hitting you and you hit them back equal force will you win? No, you have to hit back harder otherwise they won't learn to stop or that you are stronger then them. Why didn't the U.S then fly one of their plains into a building in Afghanistan instead of sending troops and now having a death toll which is higher then the amount of people who died in 9/11.

Posted by Avi Laufer at January 10, 2009 10:28 PM