Comments: Three Ways Of Looking At Jane Fonda

Ho, ho, ho.

Jane Fonda became what the guy she was with represented: Barbarella with Vadim, anti-war "radical" with Hayden, capitalist companion with Turner.
Her legacy: the "Step and Stretch Workout" video.

Posted by donescobar at December 11, 2007 12:27 PM

I didn't realize Hayden had retracted his support for that particular Israeli atrocity. Thanks for the pointer.

Posted by John Caruso at December 11, 2007 12:45 PM

Forgot another persona Jane adopted after divorce from Turner.
"I'm attracted to Jesus," she told beliefnet.
So, naturally, now "Christianity is my spiritual home."

She had a moment of insight in her book: "What I realized writing my book was that I had been empty since adolescence."

Except for the error in tense, yup.

Posted by donescobar at December 11, 2007 01:48 PM

PLEASE, PLEASE, don't let Dick Cheney be writing his memeauois book 20 years from now and WE're calling him Beruit Dick, I'm begging.

Posted by Mike Meyer at December 11, 2007 08:44 PM

There is one line in Hayden's article that strikes me, he says that the "Israel’s invasion was continuing, with ardent Jewish support in America." Seriously, I do wonder why there isn't an alternative solution for Jewish self-determination other than the State of Israel...

Posted by En Ming Hee at December 11, 2007 09:23 PM


Fascinating links. I hadn't realized what a
hero Jane Fonda was, nor how Nixon was so
intimidated by her.

Posted by Terry at December 12, 2007 09:08 AM

Fascinating links. I hadn't realized what a
hero Jane Fonda was, nor how Nixon was so
intimidated by her.

Posted by Terry at December 12, 2007 09:08 AM

funny that she regrets the only two things she ever did that I particularly approve of, visit the vietcong and play barbarella

Posted by gonzeau at December 12, 2007 06:34 PM

the mugshot picture on the left slightly resembles jessica alba (at least to me)

Posted by dan at December 12, 2007 10:00 PM

En Ming Hee, a self-professed Singaporean whose screen name suggests an East Asian ethnic origin, and whose participation in this blog indicates an interest in, and ability to tolerate reading about, various American perspectives on "the terror of the situation", in Gurdjieff's memorable phrase, writes

There is one line in Hayden's article that strikes me, he says that the "Israel’s invasion was continuing, with ardent Jewish support in America." Seriously, I do wonder why there isn't an alternative solution for Jewish self-determination other than the State of Israel.

Seriously, this is a question that has both obvious and non-obvious answers. First, however, I want to point out approvingly that the question as posed does NOT presume that any disagreement with the Likudnik Lobby (AIPAC, et al.) is necessarily anti-Semitism. Relevant to this point, today Glenn Greenwald's column at Salon has the headline "New poll reveals how unrepresentative neocon Jewish groups are"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/12/ajc_poll/index.html

Kurt Vonnegut wrote

"Tiger got to hunt
Bird got to fly
Man got to ask himself why, why, why

Tiger got to sleep
Bird got to land
Man got to tell himself he understand"

In his book, Secrets of Consulting, Gerald Weinberg has an aphorism worth of Lawrence Berra - "Things are the way they are because they got that way" - to understand the present, you need accurate information about the past. Alternative locations for a contemporary Jewish homeland have been proposed - for example, Grand Island, NY, in the Niagara River (between Buffalo and Niagara Falls). Wikipedia tells us

In the early historical period of the island, the 16th Century, French explorers found the Neutral Indians living on the island. By 1651 the Senecas had destroyed this tribe and absorbed some of the survivors. The Seneca used the island for hunting and fishing. In 1764, as part of the Treaty of Cession after the French and Indian War the island became part of the British colonies in North America. In 1815, New York State purchased Grand Island and other small islands in the Niagara River from the Iroquois nation for one thousand dollars in hand, and annually, forever, an annuity of $500. (to this day, paid every June). The treaty was signed by Governor Daniel D. Tompkins, Peter B. Porter, Chief Red Jacket, Falling Boards, Twenty Canoes, Sharp Shins, Man Killer, and others. The Senecas reserved the right to hunt, fish and fowl on the islands.

In 1824, in a precursor to modern Zionism, journalist and utopian Mordecai Manuel Noah tried to found a Jewish homeland at Grand Island in the Niagara River, to be called "Ararat," after Mount Ararat, the Biblical resting place of Noah's Ark. MacArthur Award-winning cartoonist Ben Katchor fictionalized Noah's scheme for Grand Island in his The Jew of New York.

So the question, "Does Jewish self-determination require a State of Israel in its current location?" has had, historically, more than one answer. But there is even a logically prior question, "Is it good for the Jews to have a Jewish state?" About three weeks ago, I posted in the comments here at tiny revolution:

Recently I encountered an essay arguing that Zionism and Judaism are very different thought systems. Fair warning - the author (veteran British Mideast correspondent Alan Hart) reveals his thesis in the title of his self-published book Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews.

But to get to where we want to go, we have to start from where we are. On the way, if we come to a fork in the road, we have to take it. On the other hand, if we don't know where we're going, we might not get there. I have a few ideas about what might happen next, and what should happen next. As a U.S. citizen, I have some notional right and responsibility to participate in trying to convince my fellow citizens of what "we" - "we the people of the United States" - ought to do, through "our" still nominally-existing political and governmental processes. Other stakeholders in this situation (Israelis, Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Christians hoping to hasten Jesus's Return in Glory) have my best wishes, but as an obsever rather than participant.

May the Creative Forces of the Universe have mercy on our souls, if any.

Posted by mistah charley, ph.d. at December 13, 2007 12:39 PM

mistah charley ph.d. Won't work, they already own Mahatten NY and Hollywood Florida, why would they EVER move to Buffalo.

Posted by Mike Meyer at December 13, 2007 07:31 PM